Don’t Quit Lessons for Sons in a Digital World
Being a Dad has always come with a whole bunch of challenges. That is part of being a parent.
Last night Dylan was complaining that he had gotten stuck on a video game he was playing and he wanted to start over from the beginning. We had a talk about how this was quitting and I didn’t want him to do that. I reminded him that he would eventually get back to this spot and get stuck again so why not push through it, figure it out and he’d feel much better about it.
Now this is just a video game I know, but at the same time I believe that even little decisions in life can effect how you make bigger ones down the road.
So, when he ended up deleting the game profile and going back to the beginning it really bugged me. Maybe more then it should?
I have a vivid memory of being on a camping trip with my family and my dad wanting me to roll up the tent. I couldn’t get it right, but he told me I was going to do it until I did it right. I was mad, angry and overly frustrated. But, to this day I think about that one little memory whenever I think about quitting anything.
The difference is that it felt really weird saying “no Dylan, you can’t quit until you shoot your way out of this alien space ship so you have to keep playing.”
Those words went through my head but I couldn’t exactly say them. It’s a brave new world, but one hell of a confusing one sometimes as well.
September 10th, 2008 at 6:50 am |
First, CC, I’d sponsor you for the “Great Dad” club any day. But take it easy on yourself, man. While perseverance is a worthy virtue in some circumstances I think quitting is an under-rated virtue in others. Seems to me as developing humans at play we need to explore how to do each appropriately. Dylan has been exposed to countless examples of you doing each so appropriately and I’m sure the lessons are not lost on him.
September 10th, 2008 at 7:10 am |
I think you may need to rethink this. If Dylan had got frustrated and walked away from the game for good, then THAT would be giving up. Seems to me like he evaluated his position, and realized that taking a different approach to the problem rather than just mindlessly butting his head against a wall offered a greater chance of success. That could be seen as a pretty mature decision and an example of lateral thinking.
September 10th, 2008 at 7:26 am |
Already I am psyched that I blogged this because people are coming at it from different directions then I had ever thought of. Wow….thank you and keep them coming.
September 10th, 2008 at 7:54 am |
C.C., I know you read Seth Godin’s “The Dip” awhile back. I recently read it myself. It’s okay to quit certain things; we just need to quit the right things.
I’m still trying to wrap my head around knowing which ones are right.
Any thoughts?
September 10th, 2008 at 8:18 am |
You gotta know when to hold ‘em… know when to fold’em… gotta know when to walk away, and know when to run…
There are thousands of people who “never quit” who are stuck in dead-end jobs, dead-end relationships, dead-end LIVES who are banging their heads against brick walls rather than finding another route.
September 10th, 2008 at 8:19 am |
As I discovered just last night coaching my son at soccer, sometimes it just takes time before a certain lesson sinks in. There is a time and a place for insisting that a kid push thru, and a time and a place to start over - AND a time and a place to wait patiently until the plant has grown a bit. But I’ll be darned, with 5 kids under my roof ranging from 7-20, if I can tell you what the time and where the place IS!
September 10th, 2008 at 8:19 am |
I have to agree with Steve on this one. If he had just thrown it in and walked away, that would be one thing.
Dylan recognized that decisions he had made earlier in the game may have led him to the unworkable position he found himself stuck in. The best way to fix that is to roll back to a known position (the ultimate beginning is perfectly valid) and try again with a different strategy.
To further your tent analogy: When you got to a spot where you were stuck rolling it up, you didn’t necessarily just keep working from there. You rolled back to an earlier point in order to fix things that you think you could have done better to begin with.
September 10th, 2008 at 8:22 am |
How about a mom’s perspective? I agree with Steve — Dylan showed perseverance and the desire to start fresh. The alternative would have been to cry, throw something, or say “I’m not playing that stupid game again.” He’s obviously learned that excelling at anything takes practice. You’ve obviously done an excellent job for him to realize that so young.
September 10th, 2008 at 8:24 am |
Maybe he didn’t quit. He got to a point of difficultly and decided to back track and re-evaluate how he came to be at this point. His learning on the re-run may help him eventually complete the challenge.
Feels like a great life lesson to me.
September 10th, 2008 at 8:24 am |
I clicked this link even though I’m not a dad
I agree with Steve.. he didn’t really quit the game! I’d think it’s better to just restart instead of dwell on a level is frustrating.
September 10th, 2008 at 8:25 am |
In a video game, the rules are that it’s okay to hit reset. It’s a way of learning, of starting over so you can go further the next time, it’s learning how to play that game. (I almost said “play the game” which sounded like bad advice).
Further, do you want him treating the game LIKE real life? This is an opportunity to say, games are games, life is life.
thanks for asking!
September 10th, 2008 at 8:26 am |
C.C., I’m with Steve on this. Perhaps Dylan’s “goal” in playing the game is have fun and what’s fun to him is the action. Getting stuck effectively ended the fun. It’s like cruising up the highway in a fast car. It’s exhilarating until you hit that 15 mile backup and come to a dead stop. By starting over, Dylan took the exit ramp and kept on driving.
September 10th, 2008 at 8:27 am |
Young Dylan now understands the importance of perseverance in the face of adversity. Who cares that the lesson was learnt via a video game.
C.C.++
September 10th, 2008 at 8:27 am |
I would agree with Steve’s assessment of whether Dylan quit or not. I find that the best online board games are those that allow me to start over so I can test different paths to solve the puzzle. I see it as a way to reinforce good decisions and revisit poor ones.
Dylan’s willingness to start over was not quitting at all. Walking away from the game, or the tent, that is quitting.
September 10th, 2008 at 8:27 am |
I think you gave Dylan good advice, but kids don’t always take our advice. Sometimes they need to figure it out their way. I agree with Steve, if Dylan was really quiting he would not be playing the game any more.
As a computer programmer I frequently find myself banging my head against some brick walls. A break away from the problem usually will get me seeing a fresh perspective when I come back. Sometimes even I need to go back to the beginning and attack a whole project from a different angle. Maybe Dylan just needed to take a break, and maybe starting from the beginning of the game will be the break he needs to see it differently.
September 10th, 2008 at 8:28 am |
Fast answer: forbidding doesn’t seem to work. Encouraging does…so “stay the course” is probably the best lesson you can offer and the best response from him that you can hope for, especially if in this case his “quit” ratio is fairly rare.
If he’s quitting a lot of stuff recently, then something else is going on.
September 10th, 2008 at 8:28 am |
I agree with Steve. Wanting to start something over again is very different than actually give up. Replaying the earlier parts of the game may help him identify other options that he hasn’t tried yet, or simply clear his mind so he’s able to see things differently. If he gets stuck at the same place again and talks about quitting, there’s your opportunity for teaching perseverance.
My daughter’s only 2.5 and we’re gently pushing her to try doing some things on her own before asking for help. Hearing her exclaim “I did it!” gets me every time. Of course it also gets me when she says “No daddy, I can do it myself,” but in a different way.
September 10th, 2008 at 8:29 am |
it’s tough and fun being a dad, eh?
I want to teach my son perserverance, but I also want to teach him that it’s FINE to walk away from a video game. If it were another kind of activity, I’d probably react differently - but when it comes to technology, I want him to learn that tech follows the human wish, not the other way around.
Now if it were a specific skill-building or learning video game, i’d feel differently, but a level-up in a game for the sake of the game? meh..
There will be plenty of chances for him to learn perserverance - I won’t push him to get futher in a game…
I also tend to disagree that starting over is wasted because you’d get stuck at the same spot - being stuck doesn’t really build skills, but starting over and redoing things you are able to accomplish is practice, building skills and confidence… nothing wrong with that!
If you’re stuck learning a hard guitar tune, practice a bunch of easier ones and work your way up!
September 10th, 2008 at 8:29 am |
CC, I got those same lessons from my father and pass them on to my two sons now at every opportunity if for no other reason than “men” are an endangered species, being replaced by whiny, ineffectual “guys.”
However, there’s a difference between a video game and the tent scenario you spoke of. Your father showed you the right method of rolling up a tent, but with videogames, it’s a lot more fluid and there’s not necessarily only *one* right path to take to get through it. If your son was attempting to say, correctly spell “receive” and kept getting stuck on the i-before-e-except-after-c thing, then that would be one thing since there’s only one correct way to do it and he definitely shouldn’t quit until he masters it. But with the videogame, I’d be inclined to be a bit more flexible.
My thoughts - your mileage may vary.
September 10th, 2008 at 8:30 am |
CC,
I have to toss my hat into the ring with Steve, Nathan, and Ann… starting over and outright quitting are two different things… as a dad, I can totally empathize with your feelings… it’s always nice to see you kid dig deep and power through the obstacles s/he faces. On the flip side, taking stock of the actions that got you to a certain point in life, at work, in a game, learning from those decisions / actions, and adjusting fire is a lesson in itself…
Another way to look at it… Dylan was learning, adjusting, and strategizing… back to square one is better than “this game sucks and I quit!”
September 10th, 2008 at 8:31 am |
Wow, thank you everyone. I had thought about it like some of you are mentioning,but hadn’t really stopped and thought more about it, but all your comments certainly are doing that.
Glad I put this out there because it certainly cleared my head of one thing, but now is filling it with others.
And yes, being a Dad is the most frustrating and cool thing in the world.
September 10th, 2008 at 8:32 am |
Looking back, I think I tended to put too many expectations on my son. It’s probably better to lead by example. He was, unfortunately for him, our first, so we learned on him. His sister may have gotten a little more slack.
Yeah, I would counsel any younger son’s Dad to resist “teaching” too much. As the old saying goes, it’s like trying to teach a pig to whistle. It just frustrates you and annoys the pig. 
September 10th, 2008 at 8:39 am |
CC,
I think in this circumstance it may warrant a conversartion about quitting, giving up, sticking with it on a cenceptual level. Almost like planting a seed. That way it can be a theme in your day to day conversations, in stead of being such a BIG deal. You know?
It really bugs me, when my kids try to quit, or seem apathetic about something, like it’s nothing. So, I know exactly where you’re coming from. The hard part is knowing when to be subtle and knowing when it’s time for “sit down, because father knows best.”
If you figure it out any time soon, let me know.
- Bek
September 10th, 2008 at 8:40 am |
Y’know, I have said something very similar to this with my own daughter (if you’re playing the game, you can figure it out), but now, looking at these comments, I’m going to have to reconsider.
Queso (my daughter’s nickname), does seem to get frustrated and give up on things too easily, but video games aren’t the place to teach “dig in and figure it out”. Video games are supposed to be fun, and it’s an opportunity to spend some time with and have some fun with my kid.
September 10th, 2008 at 8:44 am |
I have to agree that if Dylan had just walked away, that would be one thing. But wanting to have another go at it again is another. Look at it as learning from one’s mistakes.
September 10th, 2008 at 8:46 am |
I think Peter up there nailed an important point showing how you handled this exactly right. Forbidding him to reset and start over would probably not have worked anyway. Sounds like you shared your perspective on the issue. Dylan may not have made the decision you would have preferred he make, but he may well have made the right one for him. As others said, backing up and starting over isn’t necessarily the same as quitting outright.
More importantly, whether he likes it or not, you’ve put a little voice in the back of Dylan’s head that’ll remind him of the value of not quitting in similar situations in the future. Reinforcement through discussion rather than commands is definitely good parenting.
September 10th, 2008 at 8:46 am |
CC:
My son, Trent, went through the same thing - He often played a game and got frustrated when he couldn’t get past a level. But he didn’t give up, he just kept trying. Much like some of the other comments, Dylan didn’t give up, he just started over and tried to find another way to beat it, or practicing the earlier levels to get enough strength to make it higher levels!
September 10th, 2008 at 8:50 am |
Hmmm… I can see quite a discussion going on here. I can see the one side that this is, in fact, a game, and is designed to be re-begun. I can also see CC’s discussion that we’ve got to find new ways to “dad” in the digital world.
You know, I gotta go with CC here. While the game is indeed designed to be restarted, it’s also designed to be something that you fail your way through. Then when you’ve bulled your way through, you go back through it again, and do REALLY well, because you’ve done all the parts.
Ok. So what does that mean to me? To me, it means that we’ve created this digital world where you can just reboot with no effort. Don’t worry, everything’s a do-over. Encouraging a son to try even in the face of a society teaching you that you can just drop out is admirable.
Of course, I have to give full disclosure that I not only look for object lessons like this for my kids, but I also take an active part in the homeschooling/unschooling. I use Twitter to check on my 15 year old, email for my 10 year old… and the 5 year old is busy being 5. I’m also part of a group called New Media Dads, and we look for all kinds of discussions like this.
Thanks for tossing this topic out here, sir.
September 10th, 2008 at 9:03 am |
C.C.: Definitely a great thought-provoking post.
As you and others have indicated, there are many different ways to look at quitting. In the particular case you noted, only you can know what was happening and trust your instincts.
It is interesting that you use a video game as an example. I have two sons (10 and 7+). Often, my oldest does better at the LEGO and other video games we have (no, I don’t represent LEGO), though my youngest is catching up.
When my youngest son gets stuck, he’ll often ask his brother for help. I don’t always let my oldest help. I figure he was able to get through it on his own (he’s never asked me for help), so his younger brother can learn as well.
As a parent, one of the toughest things I’ve found is letting go. Not helping. Not doing a particular task for my kids when any one of them get stuck on something. I tell them to try. At least try. If they don’t get it after a couple or so attempts, I will help.
As you and others indicated, the not quitting lesson is a very valuable life’s lesson.
-Mike
September 10th, 2008 at 9:05 am |
I’ve run into similar situations with my son. The question really becomes “why did he start over.” Was it so he could get a fresh start at figuring out a problem or was it to simply enjoy those parts he is able to do?
There’s a fine line between frustrating yourself over something you do simply for the enjoyment of it and working through a problem that ultimately should be taken care of (especially if it will come back at another time). Never give up is an important lesson, but so is stepping back sometimes. I think your encouragement to push through the problem is very beneficial, as is your disappointment that he simply restarted. When Dylan comes to that stopping point again, he may have gained a new perspective and drive to push through it by your encouragement.
I think the important thing is to express to him the importance of not giving up when problems come our way, and to get his perspective as to why it was better to simply restart. Maybe it was simply because “I can have fun with this part of the game… and I’m happy with that.”
September 10th, 2008 at 9:07 am |
C.C. et al.
I think the really important concept to take from this is. Dylan’s Dad is there for him and takes his concerns (even video games) seriously. Its not important whether Dylan takes the advice. What is important is that the advice was there to be taken. Great Job!
September 10th, 2008 at 9:12 am |
My son is only two, yet I already struggle with how much I should coddle or push him. Right now the battles are only about changing clothes, sharing, using a pacifer and other items of the mundane that I assume will figure themselves out as he grows. I really value this post and everyone’s comments for helping me appreciate the larger questions to come.
And personally, when I get stuck on vids, I’ll try for a few hours or days but then I reboot as I recall a quote from an old boss, “a sign of insanity is repeating the same process expecting a different result.”
September 10th, 2008 at 10:52 am |
He’s old enough to read Godin’s The Dip, which is a great book I think for teaching you when you SHOULD quit.
September 10th, 2008 at 12:14 pm |
Hey CC:
I think that if he had thrown something at the TV, or caused harm to himself or others, that would be very troubling. But by doing what he did, he showed that he understood the game, and used time management skills (probably learned from his dad) to give it another try.
I do this from time to time on the Wii. Video games and real life are pretty different I think, but I don’t think violent video games with blood splattering around is good for anyone (especially kids).
All the best,
Andrew
Editor, ImagingBuffet.com
September 10th, 2008 at 12:31 pm |
Sometimes when you are stuck, you need a running start to get momentum to get through the tough part. Starting from the beginning was not quiting, it was your son getting a running start. He didn’t pack up the game and give up.
Don’t worry about teaching your son not to give up. Actions speak much louder than words and if he sees you as a positive role model and you don’t give up, he will take that lesson.
September 10th, 2008 at 12:34 pm |
Wow! I LOVE this post. I am thrilled to read all the responses. I can’t believe we live in an age where we find ourselves encouraging our children NOT to give up on VIDEO GAMES? Wow, I never thought that would happen.
I agree with the comments from the others that there is a big difference between giving up on the game entirely and starting over. I, myself, have found that after completing pokemon diamond, I was really looking forward to conquering pokemon pearl because with my prior experience, I knew I would do a better job with pearl than I had done with diamond. I felt the same way with my second garden in Viva Pinata. I can understand Dylan wanting to go back to what was familiar and decide if making different decisions in the beginning might change things later on in the game.
I also understand feeling frustrated when your child doesn’t heed the counsel that you had given. I often feel like throwing up my arms and saying “Why do I even try?” But the fact is, they do hear what we are saying but they need to make their own choices. Our job is to guide and direct and teach. Their job is to make choices so that they can learn to trust themselves. Dylan made a small gesture toward independence and I applaud him. I also give C.C. the Awesome Dad Hi-Five. One day Dylan be sitting with his own kids contemplating some freaky issue with future technology and ask “How in the world did my Dad do such a great job?”
Hugs!!